aligot ripounsous

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Posts by aligot ripounsous

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  95

  What was your first car?

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mine was an old fiat 127, i bought it 1983 and it was at least fifteen years old then!

  the seats were vinyl and there were no rear seatbelts so i could send my girlfriend and her sister flying with each bend in the road!

  it wouldn't go above 55mph and was rattling like rollercoaster when it finally got there.. the rear window fell out and it finally croaked in puff of blue/black smoke.

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  aligot ripounsous

  In 1974, Dyane type citroen, sort of slightly upgraded 2CV, was rushing at 75 mph top speed on motorways
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  27

  Emotion

  by MsMcDucket in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i didn't cry when my mother died.

  i didn't cry when i saw her laying lifeless in the hospital bed, nor did i cry at the funeral.

  my mother used to say bring me my flowers while i'm alive.

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  aligot ripounsous

  Please accept my warm sympathy, MsMcDukett, all those who lost a parent whom they were close to (I was to my mum who passed away one year ago, the fact she was quite elderly, 92, didn't lessen the grief) can understand what you feel. I think that talking about the late parent helps the strain go out, and time does its work, fortunately.

  Just one point about Sweetface's experience at her doctor's. This afternoon, a friend of mine, who is about 75 old and resents physically and emotionally from the many difficuties she has exprienced in her life (a violent husband, her son's suicide 10 years ago) told me that she went to a sort of bone setter who hit her upper vertebra, called atlas vertebra, and all of a sudden she burst into tears and felt as if that physical and emotional pain was drained off, and she says that she feels much better since then. Inwardly I wondered what was the part of self suggestion in her cure, but Sweetface's post puzzles me now.
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  14

  What were Jesus's actual words ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  we know how much emphasis the wts puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports.

  however, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously.

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  aligot ripounsous

  Your arguments ....come from the gospels themselves,

  DM,

  Of course, I agree that this approach is not flawless and, even, it amounts to a circular reasoning since the argument is drawn from within what it aims at proving. I will sum up my point by saying that, as in so many instances in life, you have, at one given stage, to put your trust in someone, and, very empirically, you just try to gather enough garanties beforehand so as to limit the risk of being deceived. We are here out of the scope of pure reasoning, rather in the domain of personal experience making room for a measure of rationality.

  I don't know much about the possible other sources you mention concerning the existence and character of Jesus. I went through Thomas's gospel , which I didn't find convincing because it smacks of philosophy, as if the writer wanted to associate Jesus in his own gnostic search, whereas what we expect from a revealed religion is a supernatural ring. From what I read, Judas gospel is in the same vein a Thomas's. As for secular historian sources about Jesus, there is hardly any, as far as I know. So, back to the gospels to prove the gospels, no escape !
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  14

  What were Jesus's actual words ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  we know how much emphasis the wts puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports.

  however, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously.

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  aligot ripounsous

  Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat.")

  In my native region we put it this gallic way : he's like the old dog which is not able to copulate anymore and wants to keep young dogs from doing it.

  As for the real nature of the character Jesus, and events, as we know them from the gospels, I'm afraid each reader is bound to operate his own personal selection between what he consisiders as legendary or historical, to follow on Leolaia's example. For instance, the two reports of what Judas did after he had betrayed Jesus and how he killed himself are not compatible and there is no way to know which one is closest to what really happened. Still, with that material, imperfect as it is, the believer has to construct his religion, the best possible way he can.
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  14

  What were Jesus's actual words ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  we know how much emphasis the wts puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports.

  however, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously.

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  aligot ripounsous

  Jesus (probably another apocalyptic sect leader).

  I don't quite agree, DM, because that's not exactly the way Jesus contemporaries did view him, inasmuch as we can trust the gospel record (and if we don't, what other sources shall we discuss ?). He didn't have just a handful of disciples but crowds were following him, the whole nation heard about his teaching and it seems that people were clearly seing him as a plausible messiah. I can't figure out how pharisees could have, at the same time, feared him, as they actually did, as a potential danger to their society order and scorned and ignored him, as they no doubt would have done had he just been another apocaliptic trouble maker. That doesn't match, there was definitely something special about his character. Call it a narrative fiction if you like but in that case, who were these narrators who have been clever enough to impress half of humankind's civilization, well beyond Don Quijote's span of influence, qu'en penses-tu, Nark ?
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  12

  A Half Serious Rant About Europe

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  like many americans, my image of europe often drifts into an o'reilly-esk reverie of cradle to grave.

  social welfare recipients who will strike at a moments notice, let criminals run free and allow.

  their inner cities to be dominated by unassimilated jihadis ( who have free healthcare but no.

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  aligot ripounsous

  how can the French be so darned idle and yet productive?

  Can I venture an answer ? French companies lay off workers well before retirement age, say between 55 and 60, or they induce them to accept golden handshakes so that they will leave voluntarily.Those workers are those who were getting the highest wages. Once they are gone, younger fresh workers remain, who earn less and work harder. Thence the high productivity of those.
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  14

  What were Jesus's actual words ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  we know how much emphasis the wts puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports.

  however, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously.

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  aligot ripounsous

  Leolaia,

  contrary to what I stated up there (that's the pb with trying to put an idea in a nutshell), you bring evidence that text exegesis can be very useful. Thanks.

  Narkissos,

  I wouldn't go so far as saying that we can't accept events reported in the gospels as historical just because we are not sure about what precisely Jesus's words were. The fact is that, concerning Jesus very existence, if we can't rely on the gospels, what we've left to know him is next to nothing. So I'll stop short of taking the gospels as non historical, at least for my own use. To take an example, I'm ready to believe in Jesus resurrection, even though there could be reasons to doubt it (discrepancies and contradictions in the text for the minor reasons, not to mention the sheer enormity of the event) for the one who wants to doubt.

  As for the option of loving Jesus while being convinced he didn't exist, you will certainly agree that it would be difficult to take a legendary figure as a model.

  In the end, to a large extent each one believes what he (she) wants to and finds satisfactory to his(her) own needs, without having to be necessarily overwhelmed by evidence. Some people are satisfied with that solution, I for one, and that's what matters as long it makes - reasonably - sense.
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  14

  What were Jesus's actual words ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  we know how much emphasis the wts puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports.

  however, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously.

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  aligot ripounsous

  Hei, Nark,

  My remark was truthwise, not literary. On this ground, I find that John's style is fairly poor but I understand that it appeals to mystic people. We can discuss that later today since we both know well that it's late in Europe. See you then !
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  14

  What were Jesus's actual words ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  we know how much emphasis the wts puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports.

  however, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  aligot ripounsous

  Just a thought, which no doubt has been already expressed on here, if not in the same form.

  We know how much emphasis the WTS puts on teaching that the gospels are authentic historical reports. However, we can see at least one domain where this historicity must be considered cautiously. As we all have noticed, John's gospel style is quite particular and you can say right away if a sentence is drawn from John's gospel. This is also true of Jesus's words when reported by John. So, since Jesus was evidently speaking in only one style and would not use a specific way of talking in events reported by John, we can draw the conclusion, unless of course we consider John's gospel as spurious because it is too different from the three other gospels, that we actually don't know precisely what were Jesus's actual words. If we extend that reasoning to the whole Bible, we will view the latter as a message that God delivered to men where all that we can, and have to, do is get the general drift thereof, with literal exegesis being largely useless.
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  22

  Current Witnesses That Bitch, Moan & Complain

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think there's a lot of them.

  they realize that they are not being treated so good.

  they might've been elders and ministerial servants or pioneers or bethelites in the past.

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  aligot ripounsous

  One can understand that elders feel discouraged when they see that more and more congregation members care little about attending all meetings or going preaching on a regular basis and just turn up when they feel for and have nothing else to do. In a way their social status is turning like priests in the catholic church who used to be looked up to and are considered with indeffrence now. Thats how organizations grow weary and stagnate.